BraindumpDiscussion on Telecom Transformation Strategies and Challenges
Summary:
- The transformation program lacks a digital focus and does not prepare for future needs.
- Recommendations emphasize customer-facing unassisted experiences to realize transformation benefits.
- Concerns around fragmented IT architecture and rising costs due to siloed operations were discussed.
- The need for a dynamic, adaptable enterprise architecture to drive transformation was highlighted.
- EcoGenie's potential as a toolkit for transformation assessment and strategy was explored.
Content:
No, no, the point is, the transformation program, in my understanding, is very little, if any, digitally focused. It's focused on replacing core with a convergence. That transformation then doesn't prepare you for the future. No, no. So you will see one of the recommendations that's on that one slide I've put in there as well. It's exactly that. They don't have a planned benefit towards the business side from what is the journey we would like to accomplish using the back end. So the whole... The only thoughts I saw of a good journey was that Red Bull Square journey where people had put themselves into the shoes of a human, right?
But even there, there were flaws in it, right? It could have been more intuitive. But the issue for me is, there's that journey and then what we heard about the FTX postpaid journey was like, you know, would make you, make you crawl into a little hole and hide. Yeah. No, no. So they're not going to get the advantage from the whole transformation project realized if they don't focus on the customer-facing unassisted side. That's why the ID cross-cutting things they need to do to make their right. So I think the recommendations is covering, taking them towards a digital-first architecture.
Yeah. Okay, so... Let's see what comes out on Monday, that's fine. I want to just make sure, we as a team are not thinking at cross-purposes, so that would be very dangerous. Yes. So, you know, I mean, maybe some, with the exception of some little detail, I go through every slide, you know, that is prepared. Make sure that, you know, we're seeing what is right. I've had, I've picked up a lot of anomalies because I'm picking up things from a spreadsheet as well as from a dashboard. There were, you know, anomalies I picked up, which I corrected, etc. But I just want to make sure that the messaging is saying, this is what we see, this is what we think are challenges, this is what you need to do, and then in the end, technology will say, this is what we can do, and everyone else says, this is how we can help you.
I think that the feedback... Yeah, that alignment is critical. I think, you know, I've got one view, which is the digital architecture of a telecom standalone consumer and SMB model. And the second presentation of one telecom is a view across telecom as a group. And at the heart of that, of that, is the issue of how much are you duplicating and how much is your cost of ownership increasing because of that. That's why the IT budget keeps rising every year, because you're doing everything times three. Yeah. They created silos now where they drew the BU boundaries.
Look, what we saw in telecom is no different from what we saw in MTN, believe you me. Who of the, Ashida, were you on that exercise? No. It's before your time. It was before my time, no. So were you on that exercise? Avi was there definitely. But, you know, the big thing that we saw... Yeah, but I wasn't there. But I wasn't there. What came out, even when it was presented to the business in telecom, is that they knew they had all these challenges, but it was the first time they saw it holistically. And that was when the light bulb switched on.
And I think that's the light bulb moment is what we want in telecom as well. I just think Mpo and Dr. Knox are at a very academic level. Very, very academic level. Look, and Serena actually as well. She's brilliant on the academics of the architecture. But somebody pragmatic needs to implement this and make it work. Yeah, but the architecture needs to become a dynamic, working, living document driving the transformation. That's a comment that I will make when I talk to the architecture. And there is no... No business architecture. Correct. Technical architecture is too fragmented. It doesn't have a vision in terms of a digital first.
It's not built to the composable kind of architecture of order. There's all those things that need to come out. Yeah. Okay. But the ambitions are to be digital. The ambitions are to be a tech firm, which is clearly articulated by the beyond connectivity guys and others, right? So where the vision is going to and the architecture that's guiding that vision are far behind. It will not get you to your destination. That's the single comment I can make unless something changes dramatically. You see, there's no blueprint driving the future evolution of the transformation program. And that's where the problem is.
The transformation to me just looks like a replacement. Say again. The fact that there's no blueprint and vision driving the future architecture and transformation program. There has to be a blueprint, which will get adapted along the way, but which needs to be the guiding light. Yeah. And to me, the point is... Maybe that's when, you know, in terms of our pitch, it becomes the EA, enterprise architecture, EcoGenie element of it. EcoGenie won't solve the problem if people's mindsets are not shaped. Yeah, but I mean for the vision, right? At least. Yeah, but the vision is created by people, right?
We don't sit in Telkom every day. That's true. Look, that's what we have to make people aware of. They have to drive the vision. And I think that the, you know, in all the workshops, there was a significant disconnect between business and IT. Yes, that's the point. That's what I wanted to do. What I'm missing is that the transformation should be driven from a view of business objectives, which doesn't seem to be there. They claimed it as a value stream approach. But what I'm saying is, driving a prepaid line of business, driving a postpaid line of business, driving a fixed line of business, doesn't necessarily give you to take you to what we call a converged Telkom.
But then if the focus is on that, then it should have gone down to journeys and those benefits and the whole customer-facing side, which I don't see. Yeah, but it's got to be business-led transformation starting with journey redesign. Bottom line. That's exactly. I fully agree. And journeys which are customizable and personalizable across different channels. Whether it's a human channel or human-facing channel or whether it's a digital channel. You see, that's where some of the stuff we did in metamorphosis in Nigeria was done well. It was a journey-driven approach. System was built to accommodate and facilitate journeys.
And we took an approach of assisted and unassisted journeys. And that's why it worked very well because business validated the journeys at every stage. Even with all that quirkiness, we built a concept called one customer where using the TM Forum party management model, we created a single view of the customer. You could see his relationship across enterprise, across various systems, etc. The biggest thing was that when we got to the implementation stage, the business suddenly realized that compliance and regulation enforcement was at the service level, was not at the customer level. So we had to do last-minute changes.
So... Things can become very complicated if you don't debate them and design them according to what you do. You know what I see is exactly the point I made in the beginning. You're going from transformation A to transformation B, and in another five years there'll be transformation C. Yeah, yeah. That's... My impression is just that there was somewhere a decision to implement Huawei, and now they're implementing the system, and they're going to be led by the system capabilities. It doesn't matter whether you're implementing Huawei. Huawei must implement what your business objectives are. That's correct. I agree.
I'm not sure that's happening, but yeah. Look, I think we've covered all that in the recommendations, so I'm not too worried about that. Yeah, it's there. It is there. This is just like what we saw in PTC, what we saw in Orido, what we saw in every transformation assessment I've done, the story is just that in places like Orido, the infrastructure was not in the other systems, multiple applications and stuff, but what Telcom has is what MTN has and is what Vodacom has today. Very, very fragmented architecture, fragmented by line of business. And it happened because these were mobile-first operators who then, you know, pinned on the fixed business but never thought convergence.
Whereas MTN's operations outside South Africa always followed the convergence principle. I mean, let me tell you something, the concept of convergence on charging system, where do you think that began? Do you know when the first convergence platform was built? No. 2010 or 2011 in Uganda. The very first prepaid convergence platform. In prepaid and postpaid, so doing online rating for any line of business. You know, I go back and I think, there's so much Telcom can do to get value. The amount they've spent on IT, I think they've wasted a lot of money over the years.
Yeah, you know, maybe we implemented MDOCs in our days. A lot of push from Sega to go with MDOCs in those days. But what we, you know, the biggest lesson they haven't learned is how difficult it is to work with them. Huawei is going to make it look like they know everything and lead Telcom down the path, which is going to be another problem. Huawei has not invested in the BSS platform. And I don't want to make that statement. So I'm not even making a statement get rid of Huawei. I'm making a statement saying, work with them to make sure they can tell you how they're going to close out the gaps.
And then what I'm suggesting to technology is that they pitch the catalog and we pitch it as becoming an enterprise catalog to pitch the partner management and to pitch the CPQ. From, you know, the SMB side, the CPQ side is also underdeveloped. So, you know, for me, I don't want to go and tell them, do this or don't do this. I just said, this is what Huawei needs. This is the pain points it addresses. You decide how you want to push them to make the rest of it happen. Because we cannot be, we have to be vendor agnostic in the final recommendations.
Let technology assess the information and decide where they bring value. And I think, Yako, if you remember, that's how we did it the last time too. We separated the assessment part from what technology could do. And they presented their part after we did ours. Yeah, I think it's good to keep that apart, yeah. I think that you are in the final presentation, right, Yako? Yes. Yeah, it works every time because, you know, people must see the independence of the assessment versus the, you know, recommendations. But it is where it is. I think we have a lot of information.
Everything is corroborated. Everything is there with the, I've got the question banks, everything. So if you look at the dashboard and you go to the, I've got a new version of the dashboard, which is editable now. But if you look at the questions for each domain, the questions, how they were scored, everything is there. I just want to make sure that in the architecture, what you have done in EcoGenie, you know, brings out meaningful recommendations for the architecture because for me, the architecture is what drives everything beyond that. So I don't know if there's any other comments or points you want to make.
I will be putting a new pack together after I get the EcoGenie part so that we can keep that as almost the ultimate pack, which will only change based on the Monday session, if anything changes, and based on any feedback from Dr. Knox when he present the final tool on that next Friday. Oh no, we present the interim draft final tool on Friday. On Monday, we present the final tool. And on Wednesday, we present the final to Lunga. So the presentation to Lunga, and I think the presentation on that Monday, Yako and Ashita is going to be face to face.
That's cool. On Monday? Yeah, the one is on Monday. I think it's, just let me get to Monday, the 22nd to 3.30, face to face and then, yeah, from there, I've got to go to MTN. I've got a meeting with Paul, which I must. And then on the, the one for Lunga is currently on team, so we will check that with them when we do the next Monday meeting. That's on Wednesday from 11 to 12.30. So we do need to, that's right, I'm sorry. And the 2 to 3.30 in South Africa will be, no, 2 p.m., 14 minus 2 is 12 to 2, 12 to 1.30, yeah.
And from there, I'll go to MTN and meet Paul and everyone and then that'll be done. So the one on the 22nd is at 9 a.m. The one on the 22nd is at 9, but the one on the 20th is at 12. Yeah, correct. So the one at 9 is going to clash with our data migration. Yeah, we will move that out. And the demo to BCX is also on that Wednesday, 2 o'clock, 2 to 3 or 3.30. That's the technology one, right? Yes, yes, that I can see. I think the timing is good because they will get feedback on our final report, right, to Telcom.
Yeah, exactly. And I think from all things that I hear Dr. Knox and them saying, and the blessing feedback all the time is that it's a, you know, very good report and the level of detail they think they've never seen before. So hopefully. That's awesome. Yeah, let's just hope that everything goes well. I mean, if there's any other recommendations as we go through, just send it and then I'll look at how, if I need to and how I need to incorporate that into the overall presentation. But the big thing for me now, Vincent, at the end of this.
Long enough for you to get the final version of that to me? I'm aiming, but I don't know about your availability because I just need to sanity check. I can give it till Saturday end of day because typically I would work on this on Sunday. I'm aiming, but I don't know about your availability because I just need to sanity check. I can give it till Saturday end of day because typically I would work on this on Sunday. I want to get it to you today. That's my most purposefully. So I think I have some idea we need to still target on a to-be vision because the to-be we've got, we need to have another one on what we like to recommend.
And I think we need to do some enhancements towards the recommended. In the target architecture also, you need to bring in the business architecture points, please. Yeah. Okay. In the target architecture, then you need to talk about creating an agile framework channel to API, to orchestration, to microservices, to back-end. A whole need for creating an agile channel and channel enablement layer to drive future flexibility when you do new product launches, when you do new journey changes, etc. We have that, but I don't think it clearly shows the focus on components towards the back-end. You've got to focus on components and composable architecture because tomorrow you're going to throw out a CRM and bring it in.
They should be able to. And tomorrow you throw out a billing and bring something in. They should be able to. And that should be the principle. I think phrase the that based on the TM forum principles of composability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, then, Yako, once we've done all this, I mean, I know that Bob and them have been very caught up. You know, this assessment toolkit needs to be systematized as another instance of EcoGenie, the EcoGenie consulting toolkit. Yes. We should make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Venso can run with it.
Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right? The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. So I think it could do two things. It could be self-assessment and it could be consulting toolkit as well. Yes. No, that makes sense.
Yeah. I just came off a call with Pushkar and Suraj and Adrian and everyone based on the technology project review that we do weekly, right? They brought up the question of the data migration and AI. I said we are using AI, so we need to, in the next 10 days, demonstrate what we're doing with AI to them in the data migration. What Norman is working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to see it. What they also said is if I use the same tool to evaluate my products and identify duplication, etc., can EcoGenie do that?
So can you bring that up with Norman as well? Yes, will do. Again, as I said, these things, you know, I'm seeing EcoGenie becoming a series of operational interventions that can be created. One being data migration, the other, you see, we can also take this. I'll think about it a little bit after we're done with this exercise. But how do we convert this transformation assessment toolkit into a transformation strategy, vision, and direction toolkit? How do you bring that part in? Because I think EcoGenie, if it's going to start and talk through how do I start from strategy and build everything, then that becomes critical, right?
That's an interesting point. I'll think about that a bit. We can bolster the strategy module. Correct. That's the strategy and then driving the strategy to vision through a transformation plan. I think EcoGenie's vision is coming together too. Yes. And in the strategy, you must also have a transformation ROI tracker. ROI tracker. Okay. And it should include the CTO part of it, which is the financial planning for a transformation program. Yes, that sounds great. So then make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Vencil can run with it. Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right?
The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. Yes. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. So I think it could do two things. It could be self-assessment and it could be consulting toolkit as well. Yes. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, Ashwita, I just came off a call with Pushkar and Suraj and Adrian and everyone based on the technology project review that we do weekly, right?
They brought up the question of the data migration and AI. I said we are using AI, so we need to, in the next 10 days, demonstrate what we're doing with AI to them in the data migration. What Norman is working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to see it. Okay. What they also said is if I use the same tool to evaluate my products and identify duplication, et cetera, can EcoGenie do that? So can you bring that up with Norman as well? Yes, will do. Again, as I said, these things, you know, I'm seeing EcoGenie becoming a series of operational interventions that can be created.
One being data migration. The other, you see, we can also take this. I'll think about it a little bit after we're done with this exercise. But how do we convert this transformation assessment toolkit into a transformation strategy vision and direction toolkit? How do you bring that part in? Because I think EcoGenie, if it's going to start and talk through how do I start from strategy and build everything, then that becomes critical, right? That's interesting. I'll think about that a bit. We can bolster the strategy module. Correct. That's the strategy and then driving the strategy to vision through a transformation plan.
I think EcoGenie's vision is coming together too. Yes. And in the strategy, you must also have a transformation ROI tracker. ROI tracker, okay. And it should include the CTO part of it, which is the financial planning for a transformation program. Yes. That sounds great. So I think I have some idea. We need to still target on a 2B vision because the 2B we've got, we need to have another one on what we like to recommend. And I think we need to do some enhancements towards the recommended. In the target architecture also, you need to bring in the business architecture points, please.
Yeah. Okay. In the target architecture, then you need to talk about creating an agile framework channel to API, to orchestration, to microservices, to back-end. A whole need for creating an agile channel and channel enablement layer to drive future flexibility when you do new product launches, when you do new journey changes, etc. We have that, but I don't think it clearly shows the focus on components towards the back-end. You've got to focus on components and composable architecture because tomorrow you're going to throw out a CRM and bring it in. They should be able to. And tomorrow you throw out a billing and bring something in.
They should be able to. And that should be the principle. I think phrase that based on the TM forum principles of composability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, then, Yakko, once we've done all this, I mean, I know that Bob and them have been very caught up. You know, this assessment toolkit needs to be systematized as another instance of EcoGenie, the EcoGenie consulting toolkit. Yes. We should make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Venso can run with it. Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right?
The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. Yes. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. Yeah, no, that's what I said. That's definitely not in scope. And I've chatted to Mary-Anne about it, and we'll go back to Mary-Anne and say this is how much it will cost if we need to do that. Okay, I mean, that's good because the thing for me still is, are we now fully productized on EcoGenie?
I think we're very close. We need to close that as a matter of priority because when you go to a place like Talcom, they do want something that is pretty much, you know, productized. Yeah, and we're also going to do that at MTNSA. Get that version of the product in, which is productized. What's the discussions going on there? You said it moved, Ashwita. Yeah, we've progressed actually. So Venso is involved in it. Tomorrow they'll do a kind of a quick discussion, but we're aligning at least in terms of what the peer group needs. They're also there.
They asked us for a commercial figure for tomorrow, actually, which they want to put in their budget. Are you only doing EcoGenie architecture or digital practitioner as well? For the moment, it seems like the case is going to be architecture. Yeah. That's what Shroma wants, and that's what he aligned with Pushkar, actually. Okay, because I think that digital practitioner in the requirements gathering can give them a lot of value in this stage. But I think just for the POC purposes, they want to be able to compare it to something. So I think their biggest thing is they want to compare it against each other.
Yeah, please update your EcoGenie family of products to say you have EcoGenie architecture, you have EcoGenie data transformation and migration, you have EcoGenie, I told them in today's meeting, it's part of our EcoGenie product. Then you have EcoGenie transformation toolkit and readiness assessment toolkit, and then you have transformation tracking toolkit. Those are roadmap. Just one those are roadmap. You've got about 40% of that, you select a build more. So the neighbors understand what they're getting is just less than a quarter of what EcoGenie's potential is. And EcoGenie digital practitioner, sorry, must also come up. So EcoGenie strategy and transformation blueprint creation, and then you take it from there to giving your toolkit to assess your readiness for transformation and areas that you need to focus on to generating a 2B architecture.
So you can show it starting from strategy like you did in the beginning, that EcoGenie will deal with everything from strategy to execution and assessment. And then whether we do core assessment as a service, should be something we bring into what we call a set of QA modules. What do the QA modules do? You know, practitioner tool, I think, Yakko, I would be very careful of selling the test, you know, test automation and stuff as part of DP. You need to take those things out and offer quality assurance testing and that as a separate toolkit.
But feeding from the digital practitioner, because we're going to have to do a bit more granular monetization of the product. When we started discussing this, Laparin and I were chatting a bit about the model yesterday because we obviously need to position something to Free and MTN. We talked about, let's say, four modules, actually. One was obviously EA, then we talked about digital practitioner. We talked about revenue assurance, which is something that Free wants. And the last one was more around API. I really don't know how knowledgeable we are on revenue assurance. We need to think carefully about that.
Yeah, we put that as a question mark, right? But that's obviously what Free wants. So we thought we'd put that as a question mark. But those are the kind of blocks that we have. So maybe Yakko, you need to chat with the team and then see. See, you are playing in the enterprise planning space. Everything we do in EcoGenie has to be positioned along that dimension. So you start from saying strategy, you start from looking at transformation and blueprints and plans. You look at, including in that, your CapEx and your investment roadmap. You then move towards EcoGenie architecture, EcoGenie digital practitioner minus to testing.
Testing toolkits, testing quality assurance code assessments can be modules. And that is, you should call EcoGenie QA. But EcoGenie QA should also be, you can buy only the test case part, test case generation part, and automation, or you can buy all three or all two. And what we can do is, on the pricing, we can say, if you take all three, we give it to you cheaper. If you take one, you pay a slight premium for that. Next thing is that we are not going to support a CapEx model. It's always as a service model.
So if you do it on-prem, it's an annual license fee. If you do it on the cloud, there's a monthly subscription fee. That's exactly how we're putting it, actually. So there will be some once-off fees, which is setup, et cetera. And then it will be a subscription model or a services model. Yeah. So you give them, you know, if it's on-prem, it will be a one-year-at-a-time licensing model. So every year, they need to renew the licenses. We have to look at the modern ways, you know, to create kind of what I call ARR type revenue for us.
You're not going to get to revenue targets and grow on the services business unless you think differently. And then any body shopping we do, our people will not go with the tools. If they want, you can have a model that says, I will give you an RV at this cost. If you want an RV plus a tool, pay a month for him in future. The Vodacom one is done, but I think for others, you need to think. So you can even continue with resource augmentation. It's like resource augmentation without tools, resource augmentation with tools. Because people's prices, we can keep cutting down.
The tools prices, we can keep at a certain level. Yeah. So we started with that model, and Bob actually presented it at Vodacom to Terrence. And they kind of liked it. Can you remember what it was called, Ashita? Not a managed service. I didn't like it. Actually, I'll find it and send it through to you, Chatty. Yeah, we need to get to a point. Yeah, and then in future, I was thinking that, you know, if you try and do pro bono entry-level, entry strategy type projects, I've been thinking through those. I was just thinking that in future, we should do the first 40% free.
If they like what comes out in that first 40%, they must pay for the second part. We could have charged for the diagnostic part, you know, if I think about it from the... A hundred percent correct. So that's something I'm thinking now. Yeah, they would have paid. So I think that that's also a model we need to think about. What do we do free and then where do we then, you know, kind of harvest the value? I think this has been a very meaningful exercise in that sense, to make you think through things. But I think the first thing, you know, and maybe when we do the planning and the strategy, maybe we should be looking at saying, what's our product strategy and how is that going to play out, especially with EcoGenie?
I think we now have learned a lot more than we knew a year, two years back. And, you know, how do we now extract the max from the things we're doing? Then I think that you should seriously think of having an EcoGenie stand at AfricaCom this year. Oh, yeah. It's the month of November, right? Yeah, I think we should showcase EcoGenie there. I really think it's something you need to get visible. You will at least have both Africa targets there, right? Correct. And then you do flyers inviting people to EcoGenie demos. So you can have demos scheduled, you know, on the hour or something.
That's great. Ashita, can you note that? I'm going to look at it. Yeah, I will. Chatty, you're back, but you're muted. Yeah, my connection keeps dropping today in all the calls I've been in. I had connection drops all the time. Okay, but I know to that, we'll chat about it and see how we can represent ourselves. But I think that is a call definitely somewhere we need to go. For MWC and DTW, I do want to get at some point Jacquie in Dubai. I want you to meet with Padma and see could we share a space with them at MWC and DTW where we can share a small part of that cost.
Sure. Because that's where you get the global presence, right? Yes. So you're coming back to SA in a week or so, what's it? Yeah, in a week or so, but I'm only here for a week. I have to go to India for four days after that. So I'm there from Monday to Friday. Jacquie, we're helping them set up their entity in South Africa, so maybe you can use that as leverage. Look, I think to bring, to show a co-branded service, Padma would be happy to do that. And as long as we picked up a small part of the cost, she would be happy with that, I think.
Okay, okay, fantastic. I'm just trying to think when is a good time to go to Dubai. August. I think in, if you want to meet Padma and speak to her, I wouldn't come until September because they're trying to get this transaction through, right? Which probably will only close by September. Yeah, okay. Early September, I would think. But I think we need to start thinking clearly visibility. We don't have the budget, but I think AfricaCom is worth putting the budget down and then looking at DTW and MWC as a co-branded thing makes sense. Yes, let's do it.
And they certainly seem open to working with us. Okay, any other questions? Anyone unhappy with anything? We don't have time to... I'll be you guys into agreeing with my recommendations. That's not my intention. No, no, it's good. I mean, I spent hours and hours on this whole weekend to believe you me guys. Yeah. Run it through AI. I go and check everything. I go back to AI. I get it in two things, things that I see missing. So I mean, I've spent an inordinate amount of time since May on this. First in getting the model right and now in terms of doing it.
If you'll see the latest version of the dashboard, you can even edit the figures on that. So, you know, if you give it to Telkom, they can continue to edit and track it. So if the score goes from something from 2.5 to 2.6, they can update it. It will update the scores for them, everything. This is why I do want to put this into EcoGenie. I'm just thinking, give it to them as a static version, but say that if you want this version, you'll have to buy EcoGenie. Maybe that's the approach we should take. Makes sense.
Okay, I don't have anything more. I don't know if anyone's got anything else to comment on or contribute. But I'm glad we almost at the end of this. Two days ago, at three o'clock in the morning, I was talking to Claude trying to get this presentations, all the anomalies set out because I picked up so many differences I had to work through. And I can't do it during the day because I'm between calls. Yeah. But I'm glad it's getting to the end. All right, Jyoti, what would be very cool for me is on your Claude project where you built the dashboards and everything, if you can maybe ask it to write out a PRD and share that so that we actually get the context of... That would be great and I'll help me get that into EcoGenie.
Okay, no problem, we can do that. I mean, I've got an interesting mix there. So all the transcripts and the conversion into questions and answers, I used ChatGPT for because I think it did a better job than Claude. But then I fed the input into Claude to do the assessment and the scoring. I mean, I've been trying to see which one is better at which. Yeah, no, it's definitely a bit of a mission, but I think getting a PRD just from your Claude project would be great. Yeah, PRD number download all the documents. It's given me one archive.
But once I finish everything, I'll get the one final archive of the latest outputs and give that to you too with the PRD. That would be fantastic, thank you. Okay, I haven't sent any update for this. There should be a new update coming out after the weekend or probably loading to SharePoint. Okay. Hey, Winslow, I'm having a problem. I can't get into SharePoint at the moment. The only way I've been able to access SharePoint and you will laugh when I tell you this, if on my iPad, I downloaded SharePoint app and I can only access A1L site through that app.
The SharePoint app. That's strange. I'm not sure what's wrong. I don't know if it's whether I'm on an A1L digital kind of email address versus A1L.co.za. But it was working. It just suddenly stopped working. I'll have a look for you quickly on the permissions for the root folder. Okay, no problem. Let's keep it there now. I think we had a good meeting now. Let's take it to the next stage and let's try and get this project closed out. So Rami, by the way, did ask that he wants a session for us to update him on what's going on.
And so he says I want to hear it from anyone else but us. That's great. You are these ITU, so I guess when he's back, I'll have to see when he's available. I just want to be very careful. We don't cross anyone like Lunga or Dr. Knox. The only way that I can do that is by Surami saying have a colleague he called me. And I guess if you do it after the presentations to both of them where they have the opportunity to give input. and you can change things if they ask you to. Okay, so you finalize Ashita the recommendations.
Then we'll do the architecture stuff and we'll get back to me, right? Yes, we'll do that. Okay, great. Then I wanna have one final joint meeting with TechnoTree before we present to Dr. Knox. Okay, cool. Great, thanks. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.
- The transformation program lacks a digital focus and does not prepare for future needs.
- Recommendations emphasize customer-facing unassisted experiences to realize transformation benefits.
- Concerns around fragmented IT architecture and rising costs due to siloed operations were discussed.
- The need for a dynamic, adaptable enterprise architecture to drive transformation was highlighted.
- EcoGenie's potential as a toolkit for transformation assessment and strategy was explored.
Content:
No, no, the point is, the transformation program, in my understanding, is very little, if any, digitally focused. It's focused on replacing core with a convergence. That transformation then doesn't prepare you for the future. No, no. So you will see one of the recommendations that's on that one slide I've put in there as well. It's exactly that. They don't have a planned benefit towards the business side from what is the journey we would like to accomplish using the back end. So the whole... The only thoughts I saw of a good journey was that Red Bull Square journey where people had put themselves into the shoes of a human, right?
But even there, there were flaws in it, right? It could have been more intuitive. But the issue for me is, there's that journey and then what we heard about the FTX postpaid journey was like, you know, would make you, make you crawl into a little hole and hide. Yeah. No, no. So they're not going to get the advantage from the whole transformation project realized if they don't focus on the customer-facing unassisted side. That's why the ID cross-cutting things they need to do to make their right. So I think the recommendations is covering, taking them towards a digital-first architecture.
Yeah. Okay, so... Let's see what comes out on Monday, that's fine. I want to just make sure, we as a team are not thinking at cross-purposes, so that would be very dangerous. Yes. So, you know, I mean, maybe some, with the exception of some little detail, I go through every slide, you know, that is prepared. Make sure that, you know, we're seeing what is right. I've had, I've picked up a lot of anomalies because I'm picking up things from a spreadsheet as well as from a dashboard. There were, you know, anomalies I picked up, which I corrected, etc. But I just want to make sure that the messaging is saying, this is what we see, this is what we think are challenges, this is what you need to do, and then in the end, technology will say, this is what we can do, and everyone else says, this is how we can help you.
I think that the feedback... Yeah, that alignment is critical. I think, you know, I've got one view, which is the digital architecture of a telecom standalone consumer and SMB model. And the second presentation of one telecom is a view across telecom as a group. And at the heart of that, of that, is the issue of how much are you duplicating and how much is your cost of ownership increasing because of that. That's why the IT budget keeps rising every year, because you're doing everything times three. Yeah. They created silos now where they drew the BU boundaries.
Look, what we saw in telecom is no different from what we saw in MTN, believe you me. Who of the, Ashida, were you on that exercise? No. It's before your time. It was before my time, no. So were you on that exercise? Avi was there definitely. But, you know, the big thing that we saw... Yeah, but I wasn't there. But I wasn't there. What came out, even when it was presented to the business in telecom, is that they knew they had all these challenges, but it was the first time they saw it holistically. And that was when the light bulb switched on.
And I think that's the light bulb moment is what we want in telecom as well. I just think Mpo and Dr. Knox are at a very academic level. Very, very academic level. Look, and Serena actually as well. She's brilliant on the academics of the architecture. But somebody pragmatic needs to implement this and make it work. Yeah, but the architecture needs to become a dynamic, working, living document driving the transformation. That's a comment that I will make when I talk to the architecture. And there is no... No business architecture. Correct. Technical architecture is too fragmented. It doesn't have a vision in terms of a digital first.
It's not built to the composable kind of architecture of order. There's all those things that need to come out. Yeah. Okay. But the ambitions are to be digital. The ambitions are to be a tech firm, which is clearly articulated by the beyond connectivity guys and others, right? So where the vision is going to and the architecture that's guiding that vision are far behind. It will not get you to your destination. That's the single comment I can make unless something changes dramatically. You see, there's no blueprint driving the future evolution of the transformation program. And that's where the problem is.
The transformation to me just looks like a replacement. Say again. The fact that there's no blueprint and vision driving the future architecture and transformation program. There has to be a blueprint, which will get adapted along the way, but which needs to be the guiding light. Yeah. And to me, the point is... Maybe that's when, you know, in terms of our pitch, it becomes the EA, enterprise architecture, EcoGenie element of it. EcoGenie won't solve the problem if people's mindsets are not shaped. Yeah, but I mean for the vision, right? At least. Yeah, but the vision is created by people, right?
We don't sit in Telkom every day. That's true. Look, that's what we have to make people aware of. They have to drive the vision. And I think that the, you know, in all the workshops, there was a significant disconnect between business and IT. Yes, that's the point. That's what I wanted to do. What I'm missing is that the transformation should be driven from a view of business objectives, which doesn't seem to be there. They claimed it as a value stream approach. But what I'm saying is, driving a prepaid line of business, driving a postpaid line of business, driving a fixed line of business, doesn't necessarily give you to take you to what we call a converged Telkom.
But then if the focus is on that, then it should have gone down to journeys and those benefits and the whole customer-facing side, which I don't see. Yeah, but it's got to be business-led transformation starting with journey redesign. Bottom line. That's exactly. I fully agree. And journeys which are customizable and personalizable across different channels. Whether it's a human channel or human-facing channel or whether it's a digital channel. You see, that's where some of the stuff we did in metamorphosis in Nigeria was done well. It was a journey-driven approach. System was built to accommodate and facilitate journeys.
And we took an approach of assisted and unassisted journeys. And that's why it worked very well because business validated the journeys at every stage. Even with all that quirkiness, we built a concept called one customer where using the TM Forum party management model, we created a single view of the customer. You could see his relationship across enterprise, across various systems, etc. The biggest thing was that when we got to the implementation stage, the business suddenly realized that compliance and regulation enforcement was at the service level, was not at the customer level. So we had to do last-minute changes.
So... Things can become very complicated if you don't debate them and design them according to what you do. You know what I see is exactly the point I made in the beginning. You're going from transformation A to transformation B, and in another five years there'll be transformation C. Yeah, yeah. That's... My impression is just that there was somewhere a decision to implement Huawei, and now they're implementing the system, and they're going to be led by the system capabilities. It doesn't matter whether you're implementing Huawei. Huawei must implement what your business objectives are. That's correct. I agree.
I'm not sure that's happening, but yeah. Look, I think we've covered all that in the recommendations, so I'm not too worried about that. Yeah, it's there. It is there. This is just like what we saw in PTC, what we saw in Orido, what we saw in every transformation assessment I've done, the story is just that in places like Orido, the infrastructure was not in the other systems, multiple applications and stuff, but what Telcom has is what MTN has and is what Vodacom has today. Very, very fragmented architecture, fragmented by line of business. And it happened because these were mobile-first operators who then, you know, pinned on the fixed business but never thought convergence.
Whereas MTN's operations outside South Africa always followed the convergence principle. I mean, let me tell you something, the concept of convergence on charging system, where do you think that began? Do you know when the first convergence platform was built? No. 2010 or 2011 in Uganda. The very first prepaid convergence platform. In prepaid and postpaid, so doing online rating for any line of business. You know, I go back and I think, there's so much Telcom can do to get value. The amount they've spent on IT, I think they've wasted a lot of money over the years.
Yeah, you know, maybe we implemented MDOCs in our days. A lot of push from Sega to go with MDOCs in those days. But what we, you know, the biggest lesson they haven't learned is how difficult it is to work with them. Huawei is going to make it look like they know everything and lead Telcom down the path, which is going to be another problem. Huawei has not invested in the BSS platform. And I don't want to make that statement. So I'm not even making a statement get rid of Huawei. I'm making a statement saying, work with them to make sure they can tell you how they're going to close out the gaps.
And then what I'm suggesting to technology is that they pitch the catalog and we pitch it as becoming an enterprise catalog to pitch the partner management and to pitch the CPQ. From, you know, the SMB side, the CPQ side is also underdeveloped. So, you know, for me, I don't want to go and tell them, do this or don't do this. I just said, this is what Huawei needs. This is the pain points it addresses. You decide how you want to push them to make the rest of it happen. Because we cannot be, we have to be vendor agnostic in the final recommendations.
Let technology assess the information and decide where they bring value. And I think, Yako, if you remember, that's how we did it the last time too. We separated the assessment part from what technology could do. And they presented their part after we did ours. Yeah, I think it's good to keep that apart, yeah. I think that you are in the final presentation, right, Yako? Yes. Yeah, it works every time because, you know, people must see the independence of the assessment versus the, you know, recommendations. But it is where it is. I think we have a lot of information.
Everything is corroborated. Everything is there with the, I've got the question banks, everything. So if you look at the dashboard and you go to the, I've got a new version of the dashboard, which is editable now. But if you look at the questions for each domain, the questions, how they were scored, everything is there. I just want to make sure that in the architecture, what you have done in EcoGenie, you know, brings out meaningful recommendations for the architecture because for me, the architecture is what drives everything beyond that. So I don't know if there's any other comments or points you want to make.
I will be putting a new pack together after I get the EcoGenie part so that we can keep that as almost the ultimate pack, which will only change based on the Monday session, if anything changes, and based on any feedback from Dr. Knox when he present the final tool on that next Friday. Oh no, we present the interim draft final tool on Friday. On Monday, we present the final tool. And on Wednesday, we present the final to Lunga. So the presentation to Lunga, and I think the presentation on that Monday, Yako and Ashita is going to be face to face.
That's cool. On Monday? Yeah, the one is on Monday. I think it's, just let me get to Monday, the 22nd to 3.30, face to face and then, yeah, from there, I've got to go to MTN. I've got a meeting with Paul, which I must. And then on the, the one for Lunga is currently on team, so we will check that with them when we do the next Monday meeting. That's on Wednesday from 11 to 12.30. So we do need to, that's right, I'm sorry. And the 2 to 3.30 in South Africa will be, no, 2 p.m., 14 minus 2 is 12 to 2, 12 to 1.30, yeah.
And from there, I'll go to MTN and meet Paul and everyone and then that'll be done. So the one on the 22nd is at 9 a.m. The one on the 22nd is at 9, but the one on the 20th is at 12. Yeah, correct. So the one at 9 is going to clash with our data migration. Yeah, we will move that out. And the demo to BCX is also on that Wednesday, 2 o'clock, 2 to 3 or 3.30. That's the technology one, right? Yes, yes, that I can see. I think the timing is good because they will get feedback on our final report, right, to Telcom.
Yeah, exactly. And I think from all things that I hear Dr. Knox and them saying, and the blessing feedback all the time is that it's a, you know, very good report and the level of detail they think they've never seen before. So hopefully. That's awesome. Yeah, let's just hope that everything goes well. I mean, if there's any other recommendations as we go through, just send it and then I'll look at how, if I need to and how I need to incorporate that into the overall presentation. But the big thing for me now, Vincent, at the end of this.
Long enough for you to get the final version of that to me? I'm aiming, but I don't know about your availability because I just need to sanity check. I can give it till Saturday end of day because typically I would work on this on Sunday. I'm aiming, but I don't know about your availability because I just need to sanity check. I can give it till Saturday end of day because typically I would work on this on Sunday. I want to get it to you today. That's my most purposefully. So I think I have some idea we need to still target on a to-be vision because the to-be we've got, we need to have another one on what we like to recommend.
And I think we need to do some enhancements towards the recommended. In the target architecture also, you need to bring in the business architecture points, please. Yeah. Okay. In the target architecture, then you need to talk about creating an agile framework channel to API, to orchestration, to microservices, to back-end. A whole need for creating an agile channel and channel enablement layer to drive future flexibility when you do new product launches, when you do new journey changes, etc. We have that, but I don't think it clearly shows the focus on components towards the back-end. You've got to focus on components and composable architecture because tomorrow you're going to throw out a CRM and bring it in.
They should be able to. And tomorrow you throw out a billing and bring something in. They should be able to. And that should be the principle. I think phrase the that based on the TM forum principles of composability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, then, Yako, once we've done all this, I mean, I know that Bob and them have been very caught up. You know, this assessment toolkit needs to be systematized as another instance of EcoGenie, the EcoGenie consulting toolkit. Yes. We should make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Venso can run with it.
Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right? The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. So I think it could do two things. It could be self-assessment and it could be consulting toolkit as well. Yes. No, that makes sense.
Yeah. I just came off a call with Pushkar and Suraj and Adrian and everyone based on the technology project review that we do weekly, right? They brought up the question of the data migration and AI. I said we are using AI, so we need to, in the next 10 days, demonstrate what we're doing with AI to them in the data migration. What Norman is working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to see it. What they also said is if I use the same tool to evaluate my products and identify duplication, etc., can EcoGenie do that?
So can you bring that up with Norman as well? Yes, will do. Again, as I said, these things, you know, I'm seeing EcoGenie becoming a series of operational interventions that can be created. One being data migration, the other, you see, we can also take this. I'll think about it a little bit after we're done with this exercise. But how do we convert this transformation assessment toolkit into a transformation strategy, vision, and direction toolkit? How do you bring that part in? Because I think EcoGenie, if it's going to start and talk through how do I start from strategy and build everything, then that becomes critical, right?
That's an interesting point. I'll think about that a bit. We can bolster the strategy module. Correct. That's the strategy and then driving the strategy to vision through a transformation plan. I think EcoGenie's vision is coming together too. Yes. And in the strategy, you must also have a transformation ROI tracker. ROI tracker. Okay. And it should include the CTO part of it, which is the financial planning for a transformation program. Yes, that sounds great. So then make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Vencil can run with it. Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right?
The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. Yes. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. So I think it could do two things. It could be self-assessment and it could be consulting toolkit as well. Yes. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, Ashwita, I just came off a call with Pushkar and Suraj and Adrian and everyone based on the technology project review that we do weekly, right?
They brought up the question of the data migration and AI. I said we are using AI, so we need to, in the next 10 days, demonstrate what we're doing with AI to them in the data migration. What Norman is working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to see it. Okay. What they also said is if I use the same tool to evaluate my products and identify duplication, et cetera, can EcoGenie do that? So can you bring that up with Norman as well? Yes, will do. Again, as I said, these things, you know, I'm seeing EcoGenie becoming a series of operational interventions that can be created.
One being data migration. The other, you see, we can also take this. I'll think about it a little bit after we're done with this exercise. But how do we convert this transformation assessment toolkit into a transformation strategy vision and direction toolkit? How do you bring that part in? Because I think EcoGenie, if it's going to start and talk through how do I start from strategy and build everything, then that becomes critical, right? That's interesting. I'll think about that a bit. We can bolster the strategy module. Correct. That's the strategy and then driving the strategy to vision through a transformation plan.
I think EcoGenie's vision is coming together too. Yes. And in the strategy, you must also have a transformation ROI tracker. ROI tracker, okay. And it should include the CTO part of it, which is the financial planning for a transformation program. Yes. That sounds great. So I think I have some idea. We need to still target on a 2B vision because the 2B we've got, we need to have another one on what we like to recommend. And I think we need to do some enhancements towards the recommended. In the target architecture also, you need to bring in the business architecture points, please.
Yeah. Okay. In the target architecture, then you need to talk about creating an agile framework channel to API, to orchestration, to microservices, to back-end. A whole need for creating an agile channel and channel enablement layer to drive future flexibility when you do new product launches, when you do new journey changes, etc. We have that, but I don't think it clearly shows the focus on components towards the back-end. You've got to focus on components and composable architecture because tomorrow you're going to throw out a CRM and bring it in. They should be able to. And tomorrow you throw out a billing and bring something in.
They should be able to. And that should be the principle. I think phrase that based on the TM forum principles of composability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, then, Yakko, once we've done all this, I mean, I know that Bob and them have been very caught up. You know, this assessment toolkit needs to be systematized as another instance of EcoGenie, the EcoGenie consulting toolkit. Yes. We should make some changes on Genies to enable doing this rapidly. But then Venso can run with it. Yeah, but I would build it as a separate module because when you want to send it, give it to customers, the consulting toolkit is our internal use, right?
The EcoGenie and digital practitioner things if you want to monetize. But, you know, we could build this as both a consulting toolkit and a self-assessment toolkit. Yes. And if it's a self-assessment toolkit, per instance of self-assessment is how we should think of charging for it. Yeah, no, that's what I said. That's definitely not in scope. And I've chatted to Mary-Anne about it, and we'll go back to Mary-Anne and say this is how much it will cost if we need to do that. Okay, I mean, that's good because the thing for me still is, are we now fully productized on EcoGenie?
I think we're very close. We need to close that as a matter of priority because when you go to a place like Talcom, they do want something that is pretty much, you know, productized. Yeah, and we're also going to do that at MTNSA. Get that version of the product in, which is productized. What's the discussions going on there? You said it moved, Ashwita. Yeah, we've progressed actually. So Venso is involved in it. Tomorrow they'll do a kind of a quick discussion, but we're aligning at least in terms of what the peer group needs. They're also there.
They asked us for a commercial figure for tomorrow, actually, which they want to put in their budget. Are you only doing EcoGenie architecture or digital practitioner as well? For the moment, it seems like the case is going to be architecture. Yeah. That's what Shroma wants, and that's what he aligned with Pushkar, actually. Okay, because I think that digital practitioner in the requirements gathering can give them a lot of value in this stage. But I think just for the POC purposes, they want to be able to compare it to something. So I think their biggest thing is they want to compare it against each other.
Yeah, please update your EcoGenie family of products to say you have EcoGenie architecture, you have EcoGenie data transformation and migration, you have EcoGenie, I told them in today's meeting, it's part of our EcoGenie product. Then you have EcoGenie transformation toolkit and readiness assessment toolkit, and then you have transformation tracking toolkit. Those are roadmap. Just one those are roadmap. You've got about 40% of that, you select a build more. So the neighbors understand what they're getting is just less than a quarter of what EcoGenie's potential is. And EcoGenie digital practitioner, sorry, must also come up. So EcoGenie strategy and transformation blueprint creation, and then you take it from there to giving your toolkit to assess your readiness for transformation and areas that you need to focus on to generating a 2B architecture.
So you can show it starting from strategy like you did in the beginning, that EcoGenie will deal with everything from strategy to execution and assessment. And then whether we do core assessment as a service, should be something we bring into what we call a set of QA modules. What do the QA modules do? You know, practitioner tool, I think, Yakko, I would be very careful of selling the test, you know, test automation and stuff as part of DP. You need to take those things out and offer quality assurance testing and that as a separate toolkit.
But feeding from the digital practitioner, because we're going to have to do a bit more granular monetization of the product. When we started discussing this, Laparin and I were chatting a bit about the model yesterday because we obviously need to position something to Free and MTN. We talked about, let's say, four modules, actually. One was obviously EA, then we talked about digital practitioner. We talked about revenue assurance, which is something that Free wants. And the last one was more around API. I really don't know how knowledgeable we are on revenue assurance. We need to think carefully about that.
Yeah, we put that as a question mark, right? But that's obviously what Free wants. So we thought we'd put that as a question mark. But those are the kind of blocks that we have. So maybe Yakko, you need to chat with the team and then see. See, you are playing in the enterprise planning space. Everything we do in EcoGenie has to be positioned along that dimension. So you start from saying strategy, you start from looking at transformation and blueprints and plans. You look at, including in that, your CapEx and your investment roadmap. You then move towards EcoGenie architecture, EcoGenie digital practitioner minus to testing.
Testing toolkits, testing quality assurance code assessments can be modules. And that is, you should call EcoGenie QA. But EcoGenie QA should also be, you can buy only the test case part, test case generation part, and automation, or you can buy all three or all two. And what we can do is, on the pricing, we can say, if you take all three, we give it to you cheaper. If you take one, you pay a slight premium for that. Next thing is that we are not going to support a CapEx model. It's always as a service model.
So if you do it on-prem, it's an annual license fee. If you do it on the cloud, there's a monthly subscription fee. That's exactly how we're putting it, actually. So there will be some once-off fees, which is setup, et cetera. And then it will be a subscription model or a services model. Yeah. So you give them, you know, if it's on-prem, it will be a one-year-at-a-time licensing model. So every year, they need to renew the licenses. We have to look at the modern ways, you know, to create kind of what I call ARR type revenue for us.
You're not going to get to revenue targets and grow on the services business unless you think differently. And then any body shopping we do, our people will not go with the tools. If they want, you can have a model that says, I will give you an RV at this cost. If you want an RV plus a tool, pay a month for him in future. The Vodacom one is done, but I think for others, you need to think. So you can even continue with resource augmentation. It's like resource augmentation without tools, resource augmentation with tools. Because people's prices, we can keep cutting down.
The tools prices, we can keep at a certain level. Yeah. So we started with that model, and Bob actually presented it at Vodacom to Terrence. And they kind of liked it. Can you remember what it was called, Ashita? Not a managed service. I didn't like it. Actually, I'll find it and send it through to you, Chatty. Yeah, we need to get to a point. Yeah, and then in future, I was thinking that, you know, if you try and do pro bono entry-level, entry strategy type projects, I've been thinking through those. I was just thinking that in future, we should do the first 40% free.
If they like what comes out in that first 40%, they must pay for the second part. We could have charged for the diagnostic part, you know, if I think about it from the... A hundred percent correct. So that's something I'm thinking now. Yeah, they would have paid. So I think that that's also a model we need to think about. What do we do free and then where do we then, you know, kind of harvest the value? I think this has been a very meaningful exercise in that sense, to make you think through things. But I think the first thing, you know, and maybe when we do the planning and the strategy, maybe we should be looking at saying, what's our product strategy and how is that going to play out, especially with EcoGenie?
I think we now have learned a lot more than we knew a year, two years back. And, you know, how do we now extract the max from the things we're doing? Then I think that you should seriously think of having an EcoGenie stand at AfricaCom this year. Oh, yeah. It's the month of November, right? Yeah, I think we should showcase EcoGenie there. I really think it's something you need to get visible. You will at least have both Africa targets there, right? Correct. And then you do flyers inviting people to EcoGenie demos. So you can have demos scheduled, you know, on the hour or something.
That's great. Ashita, can you note that? I'm going to look at it. Yeah, I will. Chatty, you're back, but you're muted. Yeah, my connection keeps dropping today in all the calls I've been in. I had connection drops all the time. Okay, but I know to that, we'll chat about it and see how we can represent ourselves. But I think that is a call definitely somewhere we need to go. For MWC and DTW, I do want to get at some point Jacquie in Dubai. I want you to meet with Padma and see could we share a space with them at MWC and DTW where we can share a small part of that cost.
Sure. Because that's where you get the global presence, right? Yes. So you're coming back to SA in a week or so, what's it? Yeah, in a week or so, but I'm only here for a week. I have to go to India for four days after that. So I'm there from Monday to Friday. Jacquie, we're helping them set up their entity in South Africa, so maybe you can use that as leverage. Look, I think to bring, to show a co-branded service, Padma would be happy to do that. And as long as we picked up a small part of the cost, she would be happy with that, I think.
Okay, okay, fantastic. I'm just trying to think when is a good time to go to Dubai. August. I think in, if you want to meet Padma and speak to her, I wouldn't come until September because they're trying to get this transaction through, right? Which probably will only close by September. Yeah, okay. Early September, I would think. But I think we need to start thinking clearly visibility. We don't have the budget, but I think AfricaCom is worth putting the budget down and then looking at DTW and MWC as a co-branded thing makes sense. Yes, let's do it.
And they certainly seem open to working with us. Okay, any other questions? Anyone unhappy with anything? We don't have time to... I'll be you guys into agreeing with my recommendations. That's not my intention. No, no, it's good. I mean, I spent hours and hours on this whole weekend to believe you me guys. Yeah. Run it through AI. I go and check everything. I go back to AI. I get it in two things, things that I see missing. So I mean, I've spent an inordinate amount of time since May on this. First in getting the model right and now in terms of doing it.
If you'll see the latest version of the dashboard, you can even edit the figures on that. So, you know, if you give it to Telkom, they can continue to edit and track it. So if the score goes from something from 2.5 to 2.6, they can update it. It will update the scores for them, everything. This is why I do want to put this into EcoGenie. I'm just thinking, give it to them as a static version, but say that if you want this version, you'll have to buy EcoGenie. Maybe that's the approach we should take. Makes sense.
Okay, I don't have anything more. I don't know if anyone's got anything else to comment on or contribute. But I'm glad we almost at the end of this. Two days ago, at three o'clock in the morning, I was talking to Claude trying to get this presentations, all the anomalies set out because I picked up so many differences I had to work through. And I can't do it during the day because I'm between calls. Yeah. But I'm glad it's getting to the end. All right, Jyoti, what would be very cool for me is on your Claude project where you built the dashboards and everything, if you can maybe ask it to write out a PRD and share that so that we actually get the context of... That would be great and I'll help me get that into EcoGenie.
Okay, no problem, we can do that. I mean, I've got an interesting mix there. So all the transcripts and the conversion into questions and answers, I used ChatGPT for because I think it did a better job than Claude. But then I fed the input into Claude to do the assessment and the scoring. I mean, I've been trying to see which one is better at which. Yeah, no, it's definitely a bit of a mission, but I think getting a PRD just from your Claude project would be great. Yeah, PRD number download all the documents. It's given me one archive.
But once I finish everything, I'll get the one final archive of the latest outputs and give that to you too with the PRD. That would be fantastic, thank you. Okay, I haven't sent any update for this. There should be a new update coming out after the weekend or probably loading to SharePoint. Okay. Hey, Winslow, I'm having a problem. I can't get into SharePoint at the moment. The only way I've been able to access SharePoint and you will laugh when I tell you this, if on my iPad, I downloaded SharePoint app and I can only access A1L site through that app.
The SharePoint app. That's strange. I'm not sure what's wrong. I don't know if it's whether I'm on an A1L digital kind of email address versus A1L.co.za. But it was working. It just suddenly stopped working. I'll have a look for you quickly on the permissions for the root folder. Okay, no problem. Let's keep it there now. I think we had a good meeting now. Let's take it to the next stage and let's try and get this project closed out. So Rami, by the way, did ask that he wants a session for us to update him on what's going on.
And so he says I want to hear it from anyone else but us. That's great. You are these ITU, so I guess when he's back, I'll have to see when he's available. I just want to be very careful. We don't cross anyone like Lunga or Dr. Knox. The only way that I can do that is by Surami saying have a colleague he called me. And I guess if you do it after the presentations to both of them where they have the opportunity to give input. and you can change things if they ask you to. Okay, so you finalize Ashita the recommendations.
Then we'll do the architecture stuff and we'll get back to me, right? Yes, we'll do that. Okay, great. Then I wanna have one final joint meeting with TechnoTree before we present to Dr. Knox. Okay, cool. Great, thanks. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.